Here is what I ate today:
1/4 apple, 1/2 breadstick
protein shake with strawberries
1/4 apple, 1/2 breadstick
chicken, celery, 1/2 apple
tea
Sunday, February 21, 2010
R3 P2 D16...
Gain of +0.4! Oh the joys of TOM. At first I was a little disappointed at no loss/gain since when I am in P3 and P4 it always drops 1-2 lbs the day after TOM starts. But then I remembered that the only steak days I have to do are on the day TOM starts, so that big drop is helped along by the steak day getting out all the water retention. I guess I will just have to ride it out and hopefully see a nice drop as soon as it's over.
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ARRRRRRRRGGGGHhhh Some times your blog drives me crazy!!! I just lost a huge post!!!!
ReplyDeleteIm grumpy to begin with! lol It was like the only time I didn't copy the text first....go figure.
Ok so here is it. I am still in ketosis and weighed in a 129.2 a huge disappointment, that was my weight before the .4 gain. I am dizzy so I should have lost.
I made it through a 4 plus hour bike with just a cup of apple sauce and an orange for crying out loud. Today I have a 2 hour easy ride and a hard 1.5 hour run.
I want to do a steak day tomorrow. It is the only day I will get away with it as I just have an easy swim. Thoughts, advice?
Phoenix- sorry about the lost post!!
ReplyDeleteSince our discussions I have been doing tons of research to figure out some of those things that are confusing us. After some of the reading I have been doing this morning one point was becoming very clear that during a low carb diet like ours it is nearly impossible to gain muscle mass. We just don't eat enough of what is needed to do it.
Also my research is saying much the same thing about trying to maintain the muscle mass while in severe carb restriction. Sounds like last time you did HCG you were not in heavy training mode. It sounded like you started training again after you were in maintenance. Hence also the weight gain started.
I am beginning to think that while HCG is an excellent tool to take off large amounts of weight loss, it is sooo much trickier for the close to goal weight person, and even trickier for the seasoned athlete. The heavy person just wants the weight off not really caring about composition at this point. The seasoned athlete is shooting for a very specific target in which the HCG diet seems at odds with some of the things needed to achieve that.
It also now makes complete sense to me that any time carb restriction occurs the body releases all its glycogen reserves and the water attached to that. For most people that is 4-8 pounds. So that is why we have a carb cheat day and gain 3# the next. It is not fat, merely the glycogen and water reflooding the system. Then we do a steak day and bring it back down. So in reality, yes we have lost weight (fat and muscle and water). But back in p3 and p4 we are really only managing water retention by staying in the carb restricted state. So to know what your "real" weight is you must take your new LIW and add the 4-8 lbs that you lost in glycogen/water. That is what your true loss is. It does seem that if you are super careful and SLOWLY add back the carbs, you may be able to keep that water regain to a minimum. But binges will always result in the big jump.
All that being said I am still learning, but I can't help thinking that P2 would not be helping you with your type of training required, which could explain why your BF is not changing or seems high. The number on the scale seems to override the need for specific nutrition requirements the triathlete would need. I am thinking that something like the paleo you discussed that is giving enough calories and protein while manipulating the carbs, would be more effective. Sounds like your composition was much better then too. Again just trying to figure this all out and input from your point of view would be helpful. The steak day may or not help. I tried a mini steak day in round 1 and lost my last 2 pounds. Tried it in round 2 and nothing. But if it ends up being mostly water and not BF then what is the point really?? Sorry so long, but what do you think?
wow....thanks for those comments. You know I remember the first week back to training after my first round, and I felt ridiculous. Super weak, and it was very odd for me because I had JUST done an Ironman...no small feat.
ReplyDeleteIt is scary to me that 4-8 pounds is just glycogen and water leaving. During normal training I take in a fare number of calories to replace glycogen in a 4 carbs to 1 protein ratio.Yesterday after my ride I used a protein shake with a banana, as I didn't want to die today....worked for yesterday, but today after two hours on the bike I had for sure depleted my glycogen and had nothing in the tank for my run.
What do you think I should do....if a steak day would just move more water and glycogen out that is not desirable.
Paleo overall is pretty low carb, you only get carbs from vegs and fruit. But your right....if I can maintain that diet...I have good body comp.
I was starving today, I had another protein banana shake and it did nothing for me. Lunch I had 2.5 cups of cabbage, and turkey breast. and 1/2 apple. I am way over in calories.
Man....I'm flustered....what if I have made a huge mistake???
I don't think it is a huge mistake. Maybe just a misguided one :) If your goal is great composition, sustained cardio capacity, muscle retention/gain, or to basically be fitter, faster, stronger, then my guess is that this is not the program to achieve that. Like I said the heavy person is very happy to bring the weight down first and then will have to worry about what lifetime program and changes they are going to make to bring about composition, and muscle retention. But they are not at competition level and can figure that out over time. You on the other hand need the results right now in hardcore training.
ReplyDeleteI have been researching a "paleo" type program that I am very interested in. It is called the Primal Blueprint. It is very similar to what we do when we come off p2, and keeps the carbs to a minimum. I think I need that in order to be successful long term with the weight loss. I like them too much :) He talks about optimum carb levels for loss, maintenance, and gain within the paleo lifestyle.
I have read so many stories of people who come off p2 and even though they might be able to maintain within 2 lbs they are all saying they are becoming soft and inches have increased. I am guessing that the introduction of carbs at the slow level Dr. S says keeps the weight from jumping overnight, but is still allowing some of those glycogen/water levels to be restored. Makes sense because most people still fit in their clothes fine, maybe a little tighter. But 5 lbs of water spread out over the whole body is much easier to disguise than 5 lbs of fat on your hips :) Also the no excercise and higher calorie/fat diet could be converting muscle over to fat without the scale changing much, but the BF would be! I felt so free in my eating, but had I been watching my BF I bet I would not have been so happy.
I am very happy for what I have learned on HCG. It got the weight down, it allowed me to get off sugar long enough to get rid of the cravings, it stopped the calorie counting madness and let me get back in control of my life and eating. I would never trade that for anything. But now I know I need to re-evaluate and come up with a plan for life. Find good body composition, and a comfortable workout program that works for me. I really like the Primal Blueprints ideas for eating, workouts, and lifestyle. I think I will do a regular p3 and get my weight to set and then slowly start to adopt my new life philosophy. I know I have to accept that the scale might change more than I want, but as long as I KNOW I am eating right, working out, and BF% is going in the right direction, then that is all that matters :) Sorry so long again :)
P.S. I don't think anyone in your situation would be able to avoid adding the gels and extra protein to get thru those types of workouts. It would seem to be counter productive and that you might even be hindering some of the progress you could be making if you were not trying to lose at the same time. Seems like alot of athletes have cycles thru out the year that have very specific goals. Bulking phases, cutting phases, competition phases etc. But they would not be effective if they were trying to do those at the same time since the outcomes of each are almost opposites.
ReplyDeleteJen
ReplyDeleteI am a huge fan of Mark Sisson, and any other paleo/primal bloggers out there.
My site links to a couple of good ones. Being paleo has many many more benefits than just weight loss though, including controlling auto immune conditions, acne, cancer, diabetes and the list goes on....
I also listen to Robb Wolf podcasts. his site is robbwolf.com
I agree HCG has given me hope in myself again, that I am ABLE to get through something without sugar, etc. Today has not been a good day, I have eaten more than I planned (all on protocol) but we shall see tomorrow.
I will not do the steak day for now. I can get through 9 more days and then I will be going to Paleo for Athletes (written by Loren Cordain) he was the original...and has tonnes of research behind his work.
The biggest difference between Mark (primal) and most paleo supporters would be the fat content of the meat. Because of Omega 6 and Omega 3 imbalances (cows are feed grains...to fatten quickly...not unlike ourselfs when fed grain) and sisson doesn't recommend low fat. I think the best approach lies somewhere is the middle. There are a ton of primal and paleo recipes that would be fine in p3.
check this website out
ReplyDeletehttp://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/h&p2carb.htm
Phoenix, you mentioned links from your site. What is your site? I had no idea you had one. I tried clicking on your name but I could not get any other info. Let me know. I will check out the website you listed above. Talk to you soon.
ReplyDeleteJen